The Jim Ferguson Interview

I went to Braehead in 1961, there was a Braehead news being published at that time in the old foolscap, pretty haphazard. I joined the English department, was involved in a wee bit of modern studies as well, and then, I don't know who was doing the Braehead news at that time but half way through, the term, about Christmas I was asked if I would take over the running of the Braehead news. It so happened that my classroom was next to where the wee Braehead news office was situated and like topsi it just growed.

You had mentioned that you had met Sandra Walker and she was one of the latter pupils that were involved with me … there were several Carl Cairns, Helen Carr, Beth Gillis, Katrina Ross, Brian smith, Ali Fisher who eventually finished in the fire service and died a several years ago. He left the school to become a TV mechanic, and was with Caithness brothers in Kirkcaldy, and then joined the fire service, it was I think the first brigade funeral that took place, I was out in America at the time, but I did visit him a number of times in Coaltown of Balgonie. I was headteacher in the village school and he had come with his second family. It is surprising how many have kept in touch over all these years

Q. How did you end up in Braehead?
It was completely coincidental, I was a university graduate, waiting and intending to go into the metropolitan police. And while I was waiting to be called down for an interview and medical, I took a part time job at Braehead. I had been teaching in West Lothian and had been in conversation at the education office and they said they were desperate for teachers, even on a part-time basis, and I said I could do a few months if you want, supply teaching. And was actually asked to attend an interview at Braehead, just like that, I had not intention of going in for teaching full time. But the experiences over that year 1961/62 more or less converted me to consider teaching as a full time occupation. Went back and did a postgraduate course in Edinburgh and came back to rejoin Braehead and was there till about 1966/67. I had a fall out with bob Mackenzie over a situation regarding compulsory supervision of school meals. Because of where the Braehead news office and my classroom were I had done my fair share of voluntary supervision of school diners. But when Bob said that it was going to be compulsory, and you are going to have to do it, I dug my heels in, it may seem a little over the top, but I felt at that time that principle came into it. I had an interview with the director a two days later, just before Easter I was given what I had requested which was a transfer to a primary school. Immediately after the Easter holidays and that was the start of a career in primary education. Where I finished up the last 20 years as headteacher at two different schools in fife.

I left in a fairly short while after this disagreement. Strangely enough I was instrumental in saying to Syd Binning that if you are thinking of making a move you should be making the move now into primary education. And Syd followed that advice and he to become head teacher and we worked closely together over the years. He first went to Dunfermline as a headteacher and he came back to Buckhaven. I had gone out to Kirkcaldy and Glenrothes then came back to Aberhill, so we finished up teaching just a couple of miles from each other.

Q. A school that was different, were you aware of what you were coming to?
No, I got quite a pleasant awakening because the ideas that had probably stopped me from considering education as a career appeared to have gone with the wind. There was a much greater freedom, in teaching, in the relationships with kids and I would say that it was quite encouraging to view what was happening in an experimental way at Braehead. There was no question that this was something where or this was a school where things were being done in a different way and you should be wary of this and you should be wary of that. It was simply go along to Braehead School and have a talk with the people there and there is a post there for you if you are happy to take it up and they are happy to take you on the staff.

Now at that time there were many people who were considered for part-time supply teaching who had no qualifications at all. There were some who came in and had no background in teaching, no background that would have justified them to be in teaching at all. The differences that came in was a much more realistic understanding of what the kids views might be, and, I say you should do it because I say you should do it … various ways of explaining the reasons and getting them to enquire and seek education as opposed to ramming it down their throats was an attraction for quite a few other than myself.

Technical side, Ken McLeod you mentioned and myself, I think started more or less on the same day and he was someone who had gone through the shipyards on the Clyde and had gone in for his teacher training. He was appointed through this area from Glasgow, Kilsyth is where I think he had lived before. We struck up a friendship, our wives as well, which is still going to this day. Although our paths separated he went on to Buckhaven high school, after Braehead closed down and retired from Buckhaven high school. I still saw him through football meetings and occasionally through fishing encounters. I started Ken on fishing and he then really thrived on it. He started a fishing club and angling club in the school and went to the extent, which Ken did when there was something that he was really keen on to the extent of the boys actually making their own rods, tying their own flies, everything from the start right through to the finish. There again it was typical of what went on in the old days at Braehead.

You had the canoe building as well, there were various ploys taken on by the technical department, I used to spend a lot of time when I had free time with Ken McLeod in the technical department building models for use in different ways. And a lot of time which was the normal change over period 2 a, b, c classes and the e, f and g classes which started their secondary education in February each year as opposed to June or July. The 1 a, b, c started in August when the school started immediately after the summer holidays. So they had a six month period which was the normal intake and starting period and then the e, f and g classes were those that transferred as from February, and went February to February. That was the differentiation between the two sets. There was no d, just a b c… e f and g….

Q. Because of the ethos in the school and that Bob was trying to work differently with pupils. Were pupils sent to work directly on the Braehead news because they may have been having difficulties elsewhere in the school?
That did happen, pupils who had difficulty in coping with certain areas and Bob would come and say look can you provide a crutch for this particular child because of the problems that he or she is experiencing. In order to help them out there was one particular wee girl; let's call her Loretta who had tremendous problems, shyness that it was difficult to get her to speak at all. And she had a little nich where she came in and worked in part of the office or in an area of the classroom. The other children, new particularly the older ones, that they had to try to help her, and encourage her to talk. She met people, we gave her little jobs to do and because of the interaction which she then experienced with other children she began to come out of the gentle background that she was in. The ordinary children who were working in the office came from classes that I had through teaching English and several of them had expressed a desire to work in the Braehead News office, to learn typing skills, to learn what I would call in those days tracing skills, one wee girl, Liz Gregg had done a certain amount of letter working and tracing in the Braehead News office over a period of 2 to 2.5 years. And when she left school her mother had got her a job in the bakery, the bakers shop. I suggested to her that she would possibly be better allowing her daughter to consider a job in for example Balfours or the Steel Foundary with the tracers department. She did not think that there would be any chance of that however we arranged an interview with the personnel department at Balfours at Druery Foundary. She had the interview, took samples of her work that she had done and was given a job and went from strength to strength in the tracers department at Balfours. She was there for a long number of years, eventually I think heading that department. This was purely because of what she had practiced and worked hard at while she was at Braehead while working incidentally with the Braehead news.

Q. Was there a core group on the Braehead news? Did people volunteer?
Some of the girls who were in the first ever 'O' level class that I took at Braehead who formed the working group, there was about 6 of them and then various others came in and did little part time work when the news was being prepared. There were children who were particularly artistically inclined that Mike Duncan or Gordon Campbell or Hamish Roger would send down because they had been doing something and brought it out … this wee lad Kinnaird was beginning to be particularly good and he was needing a particular place to express his talents there were several like that who vied to see who could produce the best article or draw the front cover for the News. There were other skills where people went round looking for the adverts, seeking subscriptions from several of the local shops. Probably the most famous advert of the lot was the William Nichol and Son adverts because I don't think that there was ever any case in all the Braehead News's that I have and there are nearly 200 of them here, where the Nichol advert was ever repeated. There was a different background scene for the low level set from the turret of a submarine to the chariot racing cock pit and various others. The children went out and dealt with the shops outside and were encouraged to do so… Would you like to take an advert? The cost would be…. The benefits to you are… The cost in those days I can remember them quite clearly for what was a quarter page advert it was half a crown, if a half page it was 5 shillings and if they wanted to take a full page, and I think that there were only ever two who ever took a full page, one was the Café Rendezvous, which was round the back of Randolph Street, that cost a whole 10 shillings. And if you think that the sale cost of the paper was a penny which went up eventually to tuppence, it begins to put things in a perspective.

Q. How many copies would be print each week?
We normally printed a round number of 100 each week, certain particular times we had to look at a print run of about 150 copies. There was a two way problem, one dealing with the shear number, if there was say 12 pages, 6 sheets that was roughly a packet and a half of paper… a 150 copies would take a ream and a half of paper. We went through that most weeks and there was obviously a limit to the amount that we could get from the allocation allowed for educational purposes so it meant that we had to order a certain amount which was paid for through the running costs of the papers and so in some ways it had to be self sufficient. This was where part of the advert money came in apart from the sales, it went to offset the costs of producing it, although I suppose Bob Mackenzie justified the various spin off's which he got from people working with the paper against the actual costs that were incurred.

Q. How was it printed? Was it a Gestetner?
There was an old fashioned Gestetner which for every turn of the handle you got one copy of the press. It was a very, very old Gestetner and the children who were there were accustomed on the last thing after the paper had been produced they actually took the machine down to its nuts and bolts and cleaned it with Getetner cleansing fluid. This was something which had to be done at times because as you can see from various copies there was a situation where we used different coloured inks. The Gestetner was set up with a silk screen through which a tube of ink was squeezed and that with the perforations on the stencil masters was what produced your print. Now if you were using the machine in black as it would normally was you then had to change things round. This particular front cover was run of with the heading and the details at the bottom in red. They had to strip of the colour silk screen, they had to remove the tube of feeder ink plus the long nozzle through which it was sprayed onto the rollers. They had to clean the rollers and then they had to fit a new silk screen which was obviously only used for black, they had to fit on the black ink and then put the same page back through again. There were some where it was blue, green, red, black and I think there was an occasional yellow, but the other process was of course where the art department wanted to experiment with silk screen process. You will find that we did a set of several front covers using the Gestetner and Silk screen process, from the art department. There were some Braehead News's where they had different silk screens and it was the same idea printing and then superimposing on that once it was dry which was quite complicated, but quite effective.

Q. Was the silk screen printing done solely by the BN young people or mixture of art class and BN?
It was a mixture, there would be some coming down from the art department who had been experimenting with it and we had those who started of from the art department but who had become more or less acknowledged artists for illustrations with the Braehead News and at that point they became more Braehead News pupils rather than art pupils. They would get together and with the resources pooled they would print of what was there, usually supervised by one of the art department in any case.


Q. Who decided the content? Who had editorial control?
Bob Mackenzie had his article which was the parents letter which was always placed inside the magazine on page three. He more or less entrusted the editorial side of it to myself with reference to maybe someone else in the English department. There was a column which was produced by two girls which was known as the Chris and Kath column. I remember it became almost famous because the Daily Record at one time seized on the fact that two young girls and one I might add now is a very experienced senior member of the local social work department. She along with a friend had written a children's agony aunt column. And more or less anything went. If kids had a problem they were allowed to write in, it was vetted in a way and the answers were vetted but pretty well 99% what these two people felt should be the answer was what was printed. The Daily Record actually sent a photographer through to the school to take up on the situation and because of that it was also mentioned on the radio and Bob took the unique step of cutting that particular area out because it was obviously attracting attention which for once he did not want. There was a letter which I think is still in one of these Braehead News's from the Editor of the Daily Record apologising for what had happened, but saying that it was not really the Record's fault because the Record has to follow up a news story and print what is there. The Record was saying that young children run agony column, if they have problems with relationships etc., etc., and there was a slant put on it which was certainly not there and Bob killed the whole thing.

Q. Why kill it if it was such a good thing?
It's so long ago, that I can't remember what the reasons were but Bob certainly did not want to have the adverse publicity… maybe he was going through a tricky time with the education offices at that time. He was one who always tilted at windmills, and was frequently having problems with the education authorities. It may have been injudicious of him at that time to have this particular programme on the girls. He may have felt that we should just fold for the time being. It certainly folded and did not come back on.

Q. Was there anytime when the young people or he clashed with RF on editorial issues?
What happened was probably it appeared in print and at that point Bob felt that maybe that aught not to have happened. It was usually too late, as long as he could justify it, he believed in the freedom of the press and it was very, very seldom that there was a clash. He went along quite happy with it and was basically quite supportive.

Andrew Walker was chairperson of the parent teachers association for a long number of years. And Andrew was a very squared person, he also had a son Sandy Walker who was at school at the same time. Sandra did quite a good job on the girl's page in the Braehead News; it was basically when she was in her fourth year doing 'O' levels that she took over the running of the girl's page. Mary Cunningham, roughly the same time as Sandra had an input in the girl's page

Q. What made you keep these 200 copies of the Braehead News?
It was something that I was personally involved in and I saw it as a record of the work that I had done. There were copies lying about when I arrived and took over the Braehead news office, those ones that were available I popped into a file and then as each one came I just put it into a box so there was a copy as much for reference. Then after so many had been collected I felt it would be better rather than leaving them in an untidy mess was to start popping them into a folder and as I said earlier it just growed like topsi. These were available at the time in the school for various things and I took them and popped them in, 20 at a time, as each folder would hold 20 with ease.

Q. My interest in the Braehead News's is that it is a record of the young people's work at the school, it is a record of the art work especially the front covers and wee pud.
Very few front covers were drawn by the staff, for example at Christmas time there may have been a particular religious theme that would have gone over the heads of various folks. The change came at issue number 100 when we went from full scap down to quarto. It was then much easier to deal with in the quarto situation and a change in the cost.

There are a mixture of them here, this is the type of thing that I took over. Most were made up of three pages with all the adverts produced on the back page.

Everything, straight across, side to side. The children wanted to see a more pleasing turnaround. They wanted to spend more time planning, so that they were more pleasing to the eye and more satisfactory to them. It was easier to wipe out a page if you had an advert … it became more interesting to look at and to read.

Q. It certainly is a great slice of life at that time, a kinda snapshot of history? It is so hard to find any archive material from that time and to have the opportunity to view this number of Braehead News's is just so great…
I have an old photograph of a group around the old Gestetner that we used; we went on from there to purchase a second hand electric Gestetner. There was a chap who lived out in Aberdour who was the Gestetner representative based at Stafford Street in Edinburgh who used to come across periodically to check over the machine and he would say 'its absolutely amazing for me to come in here because this very, very old machine that should be more or less decrepit is in actual fact in better condition than some of the machines that we only put out 2 or 3 years ago. I have watched them, they can strip it down almost as fast as I can and there is obviously a love that they have with this decrepit piece of machinery. They stripped it and reassembled, put back up, operate, take down clean, change the ink and he in actual fact is very, very good because he found that an old two drawer cabinet which had additions in it where different silk screens and different rollers could be stored for the different colour changes which were used. So this was something that was probably unique in any of the schools, a Gestetner with different interchangeable component parts to allow the different runs of ink. Obviously the machine had to be striped completely before you could use the other one and it often became a race against time for some of these kids and they became absolutely expert.

Meeting a deadline because the Braehead News had to go on sale at a certain time each week and it caused quite a bit of fury if in fact if the one piece we were waiting on was the parent teachers letter coming down from upstairs. Bob had found out, and it was not the first time a kid had gone politely up to his door please could we have the letter for the parents because that is the only thing that we need to run the paper. Again give Bob his due he took this as a slight criticism of himself of which was deserved and responded accordingly. I can remember a character who was the chief seller of the Braehead News a ladie by the name of Charlie Clarke and at a Christmas party Bob had got up to get involved in one of the dances. It was something like a eight some reel or the dashing white sergeant, he stripped of his suit jacket and was dancing away in his braces, and Charlie Clarke when Bob came of the floor said 'hidie, you've forgot to take the price tag af the hip pocket of your breeks!' It was typical of Bob, he would not have bothered tuppence if the price tag was still on his pocket or not. I don't think any other school where a situation like that would ever have been envisaged or allowed to happen. Where a wee twelve, thirteen year old could approach the headteacher and make a comment like he had just done. Bob just laughed and went on from there.

(This is the first part of Jim Ferguson's interview - the rest will follow soon)
 

Like to hear Jim Ferguson talking about Braehead and the Braehead News then pop along to the Braehead Voice and listen to this first part of his interview now.
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