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Interview with Shirley Martin (Scott)
24.08.2001

My name is Shirley Scott but when I was at Braehead was Shirley Martin for most of the time – I eventually married Ian Scott hence the name change.

I went to Braehead in 1961 as a very junior young lassie and went to work in the school office as the school secretary at that time.

I took over from Sandra who I think was going to have a baby. The two of us spent a week working together then I was on my own and working directly for Bob Mackenzie.

Were you still in the school a. when bob left and when the school closed?
No, I left in 1965, Ian must have left in 1971 and it was after that that Bob got the job up in Summerhill. Bob was attracted to that job because the future was looking very difficult for Braehead, especially with the move to comprehensive education because when Braehead started in was a Junior Secondary. There were at that time two streams of pupils but as time went on and as we moved into comprehensive education there was a concern that Buckhaven High School and Braehead would merge to form one school. That also coincided with a fall in the school roll of Braehead and the school staffing ratio is worked out by the number of pupils that were on the school roll. I think at that time the school roll was just under 600 pupils but it began to fall down to around 500. The situation became quite difficult.

Bob was offered the job in Aberdeen as they new him well and at that time he had been writing his books and there was a fair bit of publicity about the school. He moved up to take over a secondary school called Summerhill and you will know the rest of that story.

Was there some streaming:
There was pressure from some parents to introduce some as the introduction of the 'O' grades came into play. That did not sit comfortable with the kind of approach that Bob took in Braehead. There was quite a bit of pressure from parents that their children were being disadvantaged by not being able to sit the new exams. Previously, children left school when they reached the age of 15 but you did not do your 'O' grades until the fourth year, which meant them staying on until they were 16. It was at that stage that we did have some streaming and children who were able were given the opportunity, but they were never pressurised. Bob felt that if the parents wanted it and the children wanted it then provision should be made. If I were to be honest I don't think he felt entirely comfortable about teaching towards a prescribed syllabus, as it was not his way.

What are your memories of those Braehead days?
They were very happy days, I was very charged and energised by working with Bob Mackenzie. I looked up to him greatly, and admired him very much indeed. I thought he was a really caring person who always put the needs of the pupils first. I think that made him quite a difficult headmaster to work with for many people. I think he believed in the goodness of the child and saw schools as a place where almost regardless, children needed to be given the opportunities and allowed to develop their full potential. Which was why he was very keen on alternative approaches to education so these are very happy memories for me. It was through working with Bob that I brought back into flame an early desire that I'd always had to teach. After working with him it was that that sort of moved me to get some qualifications and I eventually became knows as an uncertificated teacher for a relatively short time at Braehead. That showed extraordinary faith in me, it certainly led me to take the road that I am now on which is a fairly senior position in education. I am presently Director of Curriculum in Glenrothes College which gives me a privileged position to be able to put into practice some of the things that I guess if I were to look into my heart were probably fostered as a result of working with Bob Mackenzie. I wouldn't in any way suggest that I managed to live up to his ideals because they were very high indeed but it may have shaped the person I am today and perhaps shape, now that I am in a position to influence some of the learning experiences of young people.

Highlights I guess were meeting Ian Scott and being bowled over by this good looking PE teacher. In running the rock and roll dances on a Friday evening which were an absolute buzz, the young teaching staff of the school got together to organise these. Both the staff and the young people enjoyed these evening immensely. We would put on these dances and people would come out willingly and give their time to supervise and there was never any question of payment or anything like that. It also gave a stage to school bands and groups, you know this was the kind of rock and roll age. Rab Wishart comes to mind and I am sure he had his own band or group as they call it these days and they would play live. The Christmas dances were absolutely amazing and ambitious with the decorating of the main hall, the roaring fire; these are some of my happy memories of that time.

Memories of Bob Mackenzie?
He was a very imposing figure with a physical presence; he had this incredible nose and these enormous hands and such a twinkle in his eye. He was great fun, fun to be around and he was very happy to laugh and joke. He could be terribly untidy in his dress, his tie would be all-askew and his shirt tail hanging out. This was because he was so focused on more important things. He was also terribly well read and had a deep love of English and English literature. He again enthused me in the same sort of area.

I typed the text for 'A Question of Living' and probably bits of his other books as well. I typed every single word of 'A Question of Living'. For me at that time being brought up in Buckhaven it was a fairly narrow world in those days. Going to Edinburgh was an adventure and I think that we forget that and become so sophisticated. To have somebody that actually had written a book was in it self quite astonishing.

The belting issue?
There is absolutely no doubt that the person that was keenest to ban the belt was Bob. There were a number of staff who were supportive of this issues but the drive undoubtedly came from him. That's not to say there were great periods where the belt wasn't used in the school, it did tend to be used and eventually he went' the whole hog and banned it. I think the union was up in arms at the time. A number of the children at Braehead were difficult children, the came from fairly deprived backgrounds. If however you as a teacher are trying to cope with a class and there will be sometimes very difficult situations and to have the ability and the right to use the belt to try and instill discipline I can see that that can be very beguiling option. He certainly was right in that violence is not acceptable, especially violence against children. Those were different days and you have to remember that the degree of respectability of almost making sure that you maintained discipline in a classroom. It was certainly very controversial and was discussed at a number of staff meetings.

It wasn't just the teachers you see there was a kind of respectability attached to a teacher who could control a class and exercise discipline. There were many, many parents who actually wanted children to be belted, perhaps not their own child. Parents certainly had difficulty in accepting this view.

I must say that I have never subscribed to the idea that Bob Mackenzie was 'a man ahead of his time'. I think that Bob Mackenzie was the man who initiated the phase that we eventually moved into. He was a pioneer, and taking a literal translation of the word and you get ' someone who starts' and therefore could be seen as ahead of his time. A lot of things happen now that are taken for granted that he pioneered, so what would have been his time … I think his time was right and perhaps he had to be the one who forged that pathway and made it easier for others to follow.

Any funny memories?
There used to be a hotel called the Randolph Hotel behind Braehead and it was the custom at Christmas parties for some members of staff to disappear over there and have a drink together. I think on one occasion a pupil came over to say 'please sir, I think it's time for the party to be finished, don't you think you should come back now'. Now I don't want to give the impression that the pupils were neglected but there was a very easygoing relationship.

Bob as previously mentioned was not that mindful of his dress and for one Christmas dance he had bought a new suit. He was dancing round with somebody and one of the pupils stepped up and said 'is that a new suit that you have bought?' Bob said 'yes, it was, how did you now it was new?' The pupil said 'because you have left the price tag on your trousers.' That is so typical of the man and what was important to him.

I have lots and lots of happy memories and stories about someone who had misbehaved and one member of the technical staff had said to a pupil to get his hand up to be belted. The pupil tried to say something but the teacher just repeated the request to get your hand up. He then gave him 3 of the belt. Afterwards he said to the pupil what did you want to say? The pupil said 'I was just trying to tell you it wasn't me'. The teacher said oh, well I am sorry about that, just remind me next time that I owe you. There was even in the hard teachers a softness and caring side.

Ian took scores of pupils down the beach to teach them how to swim. If anyone remembers Buckhaven beach they will know that you were fighting against the coal. The fact that they were building canoes and paddling them in the old harbour. Just lots and lots of happy memories.

The Laurie Campbell saga?
He assumed the name Lawrence Campbell who was a qualified English teacher but he did not happen to be this chap. This chap had been a policeman out in one of the African countries and he had met the real Lawrence Campbell. He came back here to the UK and assumed his name and identity. So therefore if qualifications were checked then they would come up as bona fida. He had some fairly unusual approaches to the teaching of English. I think there will be a number of people who were pupils then who still can't spell because Mr. Campbell said 'spelling was not important and did not matter'.

RF's theories and place in today's Education system?
He at that time had become appalled at what was happening within the education system and he became a strong advocate for change. He would have found it extremely difficult. I am much more of an pragmatist, I will accept that there are some things that you cannot change therefore what you have to do is work within the system to affect change. He would have great difficulty with league tables, interestingly his eldest really valued education and went on to university. The other two children I believe did not go on to formal education. What I am trying to illustrate there are the conformists, the people who recognise that in order to do well today that you need evidence that you have attained a certain level or gone through the system. This is possible not the best way but I think it is something that we have had to accept today. When I said that I had been influenced and I am sure that I continue to be influenced by Bob Mackenzie. It is recognising that there is a system that we have to work but the process and approaches that I use are more akin to Mackenzie than to someone who relied on the belt to get order in a classroom.

Did you go to Inverlair or Loch Rannoch?
I took a party of girls up to Loch Rannoch. It was certainly very rough and ready. It was a tremendous experience by going through it and the young girls I am sure found it a positive personal experience. I visited Inverlair although we never did get the opportunity to use it for groups of pupils. Although groups of pupils did go up with members of the technical department to make repairs and start to make the place habitable. Nowadays this has become part and parcel of today's education system. Children today just accept it as part of their everyday educational experience.


Many thanks to Shirley for her comments and memories and being allowed to reproduce a few pictures from that time and for the privilege of reading letters from R.F. Mackenzie to Shirley. (look out for the photos and quotes from the letters. Jim)
 

View Shirley's photographs here


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